Instruction/no instruction

Hi all,

I've been hanging around various forums for a while now, and the main point that everyone has been discussing is obviously safety of newbies like myself. Now then, I've not got into the water side of things yet, I'm still on my land board (and will be for some time no doubt) but when I do eventually progress to water I dont really want to be taking lessons - mainly for 2 reasons:

1) They are a bit pricey - though this is only a minor factor compared to safety, it still is very prominent for me as I am a student, and a little on the budget side - lessons would mean I have no cash left for kit. 2) I dont learn from lessons very well. In many cases throughout my life, swimming, some windsurfing, skiing, kneeboarding etc I have tried lessons and found them utterly useless. However a couple of hours of pain and crashes have resulted in me being quite reasonable at them. I'm not really a learn from lessons person, more a learn from mistakes and feel person.

So seeing as I'd rather learn by myself it looks as though I'm going to be hated by all other kitesurfers and called stupid. Sure I'll be having problems, but that is what I expect when I'm learning something - its the way I learn. I'm not a stupid person, and I am quite sensible, I just have a different approach.

I'm hoping starting on the land board will give me a decent grounding - it was advice from several shops I visited, but when I do make that leap to a large kite (and it will probably have to be quite large as I'm 14 stone) I'm still going to be floundering around for a while getting used to the power etc, as would anyone. I find it kinda rediculous that such people are considered to be damaging to the sport - how do you think the sport began - some nutter thought it would be funny to use a huge kite with a board - no-one calls them stupid or ignorant.

Anyway, just wondering what everyone thought.

Think quit the same about that,

why are there always people who think that they dont had to learn the sport where they are good in?

Bonad

The reasons why not are in many ways irrelevant. - look on lessons as an investment.

Firstly it's just possible you might learn something from the experts. Personally I let them break limbs and then tell me how not to. It hurts less.

Secondly, when you crash into the normal people (and you WILL). they will be unhappy. Quite possible unhappy enough to take you to court to demand some form of compensation. We're talking large amounts of cash here - easily into the millions, depending which side of the Atlantic you are on. When your insurer hears you've actively sneered at learning from those more experienced than you, they won't pay.

You ARE insured, aren't you ?

MB

Not really, not when they give me nothing. I have sense, and I can read the weather, the only thing left is control of the kite and board together. Anyone who starts with lessons is convinced they are the correct thing to do, its like they've been stung for lessons so they spite everyone else who might not need them. I'm well aware of a kite's power, and the dangers involved, after all I'm a fully capable human being!

Like I said, I dont learn from lessons - it just doesnt happen. I'd rather have the fun of being battered and bruised - its just the way I am.

No I wont, I luckily have access to miles upon miles of beaches with few people on them. Thanks for judging my conditions remotely :o)

The sensible side, thank god!

I wasnt sneering at anyone, this is just the attitude I'm talking about - you are proving my point.

I'm not even surfing yet mate, and on my board I only use it when theres no-one around. I do intend getting insurance, however I'd like to find one that covers my main sport - mountain biking, which is far more dangerous to others, and no-one moans about insurance in that sport, even when it's

If anyone sees you in the distance they will walk in your way. I know - I've been there.

You might not think you are looking down on the idea of taking lessons, but that is how a court of law will see it.

Again, you do not know where I kite, and when, and how many people are there - I'm talking MILES of beach/sea, and a handful of people, its nothing new here, people dont take much notice. ANYWAY, even if they did I can land a kite quite happily, have done plenty of times when flying in more busy areas. Plus, as soon as you leave the beach there is noone in the water other than yourself. I have seen 1 other kitesurfer there in my whole life!

I am not looking down on it, this is my point. Everyone jumps to the 'wreckless idiot who looks down on lessons' view. Its just not so. you dont answer any of my other points...why not?

It is not my problem how a court will see it. I guarantee they would not even look into that side of it, you can get insurance for mountain biking and other sports of more dangerous nature, none require training, plus if you look into your insurance clauses, none that I have found in the UK have 'adequate training' clauses. So in fact, you are not correct.

OK - let's look at some...

'I dont really want to be taking lessons - mainly for 2 reasons:'

I estimate that to get enough gear to start kitesurfing it will cost about £600 - £800. Lessons locally are £30 an hour. If you can afford £600, what's another £30 ?

How did you learn to read and write ? Why are you dismissing the best chance you can ever get to learn from someone else's mistakes.

I expect that's the fault of the teacher. Get someone to recommend a school to you.

It's those crashes that will get our hobby banned. People have died recently, you know.

At that stage it wasn't a sport - it was some nutters messing around. When we started hurting normal people we decided it was time to get sensible.

There only needs to be one person who wants to watch. They will stand in the way. It IS your problem how a court will see it if you are sued. Seen my policy, have you ;o) I've been explicitly told by the insurers that not taking advantage of education & training if available will be regarded in law as being negilgent and that will invalidate any policy.

I'll be blunt here. You are young and it shows in your writing style. You ask 'Anyway, just wondering what everyone thought.' and then get very defensive when you get an opinion different to your own.

Just my opinion

What a stupid thing to come out with - its a further £30 - I'm stretching my funds doing it as it is, i dont want to spend a further X hundred, as an hour would do sod all, so I am told.

I learning to read and write is a distinctly different activity - if you honestly think theres an analogy you have problems. And just out of interest, it took me a long time to be able to write neatly enough to read, years of practice. And no, I'm not retarded, I can assure you I'm far from it.

Thats just the point, you assume everyone can learn by being taught as opposed to learning from trying. This just isnt so. Everyone I've had recommending schools has had a vested interest in my doing so, and almost everyone else has recommended not bothering!

This is why I have started with a small kite, one to practice with before getting into the bigger stuff. Or had you forgotten that? You are missing the point again, these 'crashes' are not going to be with anyone else, they may involve me and nothing else - what do you think might happen on a deserted beach? People pop up out of nowhere? Do you think I wont see people getting in the way? I have some experience with power kites, and it doesnt take an idiot to get the kite in a position to keep you out of trouble. Yes, people have died recently. I have no idea of the circumstances, but I'd be pretty sure the kiter was in a busy place, or a dangerous one with obstacles around - accidents are bound to happen.

All sports are are people messing around, you just call them sports as they are a recognised catagory.The hurting of normal people is not even an issue here, as I have repeated so many times I'm getting sick of it!

LOL!! So it comes to personal insults now does it Thats a bit cheap I have to say, but I can assure you that although you may think you know it all, you do not. I am not so young, and not so foolhardy as you think - I simply have views that are not the same paranoid views of others. As I have mentioned, those who are insisting lessons are the way to go are in the minority of opinion, and usually have an interest in others doing so. Please explain to me what might be taught in an hours lesson that you suggest that I cannot figure out myself from past experince with windsurfing and other water based sports, and with experience of onland kiteboard use?

As for getting defensive, if I begin a discussion, I have to take a side otherwise it is just pointlessly stirring trouble. If I take a side and do not defend it, there was no point in starting the discussion. Hence seeing as I wanted to have a discussion, I had to take a side and defend it for the purpose of propogating said discussion!

Thats fine, express your opinion, but expect to be argued with - as I did, you cant expect everyone to agree, neither did I, I just wanted to put my views forward to enable both sides to be seen.

Just out of curiosity - how did you come up with the name manky badger?!

know yourself, know your gear, and be carefull with other people

ps: not recommended that you are going to kitesurf without knowing your kite(s). Some people see that kite as something extras thats needed for the sport. For those people: try wavesurfing or windsurfing. If you dont know a kite, he can be very dangerous when overpowerd

MVG, Bonad
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/ KITEBOARDING%20SAFETY%20...